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AT1C Autolube white priming wheel does not turn

  • tennbamaman
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Im moving into next steps to getting My 1971 AT1C going i am getting into some other things.  It appears the electric start works when battery is charged good.  Im not sure its charging battery yet,  Motor seems to run good and trying to diagnose my oil pump.  I have confirmed it does not work and i have always premixed as i was never sure.  I have watched the auto lube videos, the how to rebuild,  and i searched long and hard and only found a brief topic about the white nylon priming wheel not turning.  I now know its supposed to turn one direction fairly easy.    
I have had the clutch side off twice while i replaced seal and changed friction plates.  I have never taken the oil pump off the cover.  Not sure what POs did.  As stated white wheel does not turn at all.  Does this mean my pump is toast?  I know something is coming through from the internal cover to make it work.  Either the pump is locked up internally or the drive that makes it work is not functioning correctly.  Any thoughts? 
PS, the 2 mounting screws that hold it on was not tight.  it appears they were backed off about a 1/4".  Its possible i did it thinking it might have to come off to get that cover off.  I do not remember doing it.  I did tighten them up before testing pump and wheel.
06 Jun 2021 07:03 #1

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  • tennbamaman
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Replied by tennbamaman on topic AT1C Autolube white priming wheel does not turn

Thanks in advance for all help. As it appears i had nothing to lose, I have pulled the pump off. The white priming wheel will still not turn in either direction. I plugged the hose so oil would not run out of tank. I started the bike, and the shaft that drives the pump spins very fast. There was oil inside pump so i dont think it is rusty on the inside. Appears the pump is mechanically locked up internally some way. The throttle wheel spins very easy as it should and the pump can be pulled forward and the spring pulls it back strongly.
Questions
What could be locked up internally?
Would a kit fix this and or does it even need a kit?
Without hurting anything, can i run the bike without the pump on it .
06 Jun 2021 10:09 #2

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You could just pull the pump off and see if that makes a difference with the primer wheel turning.  (I don't think it will.)  It just pulls off the shaft after you remove the two bolts.  If someone let pump run dry it could have seized up...  if that happened, drive gear (inside cover) or driveshaft worm gear (you'll see it with pump removed) might be stripped.

Then box pump up and ship it to DEET for repair. 

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Seal for pump driveshaft is located inside cover...  bushing in cover is lubed by autolube oil on pump side.  You can run without pump installed but know that the bushing needs a little oil.  Shaft that sticks out of cover should turn with engine running and should not be able to be turned by hand with engine off (and clutch cover on engine of course). 

If you plan on running without pump long term (not recommended), removing the shaft and bushing and installing a block off plate is recommended.
1963 YG1-T, 1965 MG1-T, Allstate 250, 1970 CT1b, 1971 R5, 1973 AT3MX, 1974 TS400L, 1975 RD350, 1976 DT175C, 1976 Husqvarna 250CR, 1981 DT175G, 1988 DT50, 1990 "Super" DT50, 1991 RT180, 2017 XT250
06 Jun 2021 10:20 #3

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You replied while I was typing...  just ignore some of it as you went there already. 

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1963 YG1-T, 1965 MG1-T, Allstate 250, 1970 CT1b, 1971 R5, 1973 AT3MX, 1974 TS400L, 1975 RD350, 1976 DT175C, 1976 Husqvarna 250CR, 1981 DT175G, 1988 DT50, 1990 "Super" DT50, 1991 RT180, 2017 XT250
06 Jun 2021 10:23 #4

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  • tennbamaman
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Replied by tennbamaman on topic AT1C Autolube white priming wheel does not turn

Good to see that i am learning from you and had moved the direction you would have pointed, lol.  I am attaching a picture of the internal gear.  My fat finger was too big but i used a hook pic and placed inside teeth of that metal gear.  It spins freely and does not appear to be stripped.  I pulled the white gear off and the shaft it sits on appears to have rust around it.  When i spin the metal gear i do not see anything else move.  I do not see the pump move nor the white wheel / shaft.  Of course i only spun it a couple full rotations.  May need more that that to see movement at the pump piston at the end  
06 Jun 2021 12:35 #5

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Replied by tennbamaman on topic AT1C Autolube white priming wheel does not turn

here is the pic  
06 Jun 2021 12:36 #6

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Replied by Makotosun on topic AT1C Autolube white priming wheel does not turn

Send it to DEET for diagnosis and a quote.
IF it isn't one thing, it's another.
08 Jun 2021 19:07 #7

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  • RT325
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I think doing 'that' it should turn both ways, so are you turning it in the direction it clicks over the pins so pump doesn't operate. If you turn it the other way "& it won't" then it proves its locked up in there somewhere. Happy to be proved wrong by anyone--Deet, MarkT etc-- as i only "Think" i understand how it works.
09 Jun 2021 16:43 #8

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It is a delicate piece upon disassembling. If you can't make the gear as viewed from your pics move by turning the white wheel there are some serious issues inside. There is a set of tiny, tiny sprag pins & springs inside, and it sounds like these are your issue if even turning the white wheel in the direction of the arrow produces nothing. Those parts are no joke in size, you have to be 100% dialed in your processes to ensure the bits are captured on disassembly, cleaning and re-assembly takes patience of Job.

It's sitting dormant that kills these pumps, or running premix on an empty tank. Dormant, stagnant flow and sludge sticks parts inside, and no oil + a spinning pump kills from heat. Sitting for years also results in sticky sludgy and that first spin after darkness damages parts inside the pump too (I know).

DEET is your resource.
Allrighty Then
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09 Jun 2021 20:03 #9

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  • RT325
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Just to clarify my post, i assumed you had your finger in there at the gear wheel in which case it should click over pins in on direction but moving it the other way the pump shaft should move up & down at the plate & cable wheel--only move a little bit at the plate unless you turn the cable wheel for max movement. Sounds like its in a bad way & rebuild or replace job. Make sure the worn drive out of where it mounts is turning via the motor.
10 Jun 2021 02:44 #10

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