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Kickstarter woes

  • adguy2112
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Kickstarter woes was created by adguy2112

Having a kickstarter issue with my 69 CT1 hoping I can get some advice on. I’ve searched the forum first and looked over the service manuals. All was fine with the Kickstarter until I let someone else ride it. The Kickstarter lever was at 12:00 and working perfectly. I heard a rattle while my brother was driving away. Noticed the lever was at 1:00 and rubbing the case with a continuous loud rattle while running. Brought it home, drained the oil and removed the Connections and cover. Couldn’t see anything obvious. I talked the Kickstarter lever at 12:00 and seemed to operate fine thought perhaps a bit slower on the return than I remembered. I removed the mechanism to check for broken case parts and to inspect  the spring. All looks good. Felt even looser once Si reinstalled. Tried to bring the spring around 360 degrees but it’s too much. I could just put it back together and hope for the best but it seems it shouldn’t have kicked to 1:00 in the first place.any advice would be appreciated.
22 Nov 2021 22:50 #1

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Replied by MarkT on topic Kickstarter woes

Sounds like kick start stop slipped on the shaft.  Not uncommon.  There were several revisions on the AT/CT kick start over the years to solve this and other breakage issues.

Pictures would be helpful.

www.yamaha-enduros.com/index.php/forums/1968-71-badge-bikes/7547-kick-starter-not-returning?start=0

yamaha-enduros.com/index.php/forums/restorations/13753-69-ct1-175-budget-fixer-upper?start=60#116248

 
1963 YG1-T, 1965 MG1-T, Allstate 250, 1970 CT1b, 1971 R5, 1973 AT3MX, 1974 TS400L, 1975 RD350, 1976 DT175C, 1976 Husqvarna 250CR, 1981 DT175G, 1988 DT50, 1990 "Super" DT50, 1991 RT180, 2017 XT250
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23 Nov 2021 05:19 #2

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Replied by adguy2112 on topic Kickstarter woes

Thanks Mark, informative posts. I inspected the shift shaft mechanism. Some tooth wear on the outside but likely passable. Definitely the early style. A bit worried the splines on the stop spun but it’s tight. Took apart the spring and put it back together. Not sure what I did but the spring now seems to have enough travel to tighten up when it reaches the pin. Feels maybe a bit too tight but maybe it’s ok. The gasket was in good shape but I tore it in my hurry to get the cover back on. If it works won’t be letting my lunk of a brother ride it again. 
23 Nov 2021 20:55 #3

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Replied by alnarv on topic Kickstarter woes

I have a CT2 that had the same problem. Took a few years to figure out the real cause. The stop "appears" to be tight on the shaft upon inspection, but it had slipped on the splines, then bound up in the new location. If struck again it will move again. The problem originates not with the kick stroke, but with the return. The "inexperienced" rider will let the kick lever slam back to the stop position instead of returning it with the kicking leg. This impact causes the splines to slip, allowing the lever to move forward. You re-position the lever on the shaft and a little spring tension is lost. This repeats until there is no tension left. Re-tensioning the spring will fix it temporarily, but the next time the lever slams back up, the stop will slip again. The "correct" solution is to replace the shaft and stop. My solution was to weld the stop to the shaft. This is difficult as the stop rides against the case so the weld has to penetrate the two parts but leave no bead to interfere with the case surface. 
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24 Nov 2021 05:48 #4

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Replied by MarkT on topic Kickstarter woes

I agree that the stop slipped. 

I have had the same happen and you normally can't see the evidence.  Yamaha beefed up those parts at least a couple times.

Some people say that installing the lever at 12 instead of 10 o'clock like original helps prevent the problem.  I know on one of my early bikes the lever was at 10, slipped to 12, and then slipped more where it was hitting the cover. 

If you can find a nice assembly from an AT3, CT3, or even a 74-76 US DT125 it will be the "strongest"...  

 
1963 YG1-T, 1965 MG1-T, Allstate 250, 1970 CT1b, 1971 R5, 1973 AT3MX, 1974 TS400L, 1975 RD350, 1976 DT175C, 1976 Husqvarna 250CR, 1981 DT175G, 1988 DT50, 1990 "Super" DT50, 1991 RT180, 2017 XT250
24 Nov 2021 06:57 #5

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Replied by adguy2112 on topic Kickstarter woes

Thanks guys for the advice and confirmation. It’s unfortunate but at least there is certainty. I realized I know why I got more spring travel after disassembling and reassembling the spring. I must have put it back together 180 degrees out from the original spring position. Probably too much spring tension now but it’s making up for the Spline slippage. I have a very good welder if I can’t locate a later model replacement. Hopefully someone here will have a good photo of where the stop should be positioned originally. I guess I could approximate it if needed by using spring pressure. 
24 Nov 2021 08:45 #6

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Replied by RT325 on topic Kickstarter woes

My Guess.
If the kick lever goes forward there's only one reason i can think of & that is the stop has let go. In pic one & two i can see one spline missing so might be a clue. You could somehow support it in the vice across the stop & try to twist it back just to confirm--lever on & big vice grips the other way to even out the twisting turn. If that proves it then tig weld or bronze weld it so it'll hold.
Only other thought is the case stop damage but looks ok in the pic. This damage can happen if the motor has started backwards--which is unlikely but possible to run backwards. A sharp kickback could cause it if the 'twisted splines' are compromised. Letting the lever go from the bottom of the stroke so the spring slams the stop into the case stop could do it but only if it was damaged to start with. I'll put up a parts pic which "if drawn to scale" could give a clue to proximity of the spring hole in relation to the stop.
24 Nov 2021 13:42 #7

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Replied by RT325 on topic Kickstarter woes

 
24 Nov 2021 13:43 #8

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Replied by adguy2112 on topic Kickstarter woes

All good, RT. Thank you for the advice. I located a later model suitable replacement and should have it here in about a week. While I'm waiting, weather permitting, I'll be focused on paint prep work for the tanks, ears and headlight in California Orange. Almost at the finish line for this project before I turn it over to my daughter for whom I did this restoration. This was a minor setback and probably good that it occurred now since she is new to riding and would very likely have let the shift lever pop back on it's own at some point.
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24 Nov 2021 14:33 #9

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