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Makotosun

DT360 instability, cant figure it out

  • akara1
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Replied by akara1 on topic DT360 instability, cant figure it out

Hello guys, Yes I torqued the spindle nut to 22ftlbs, This translates into the handlebars falling away on their own once I nudge them to about 5-10 degrees in either direction, with the wheel off the ground. So, they are still falling away to the side and it doesnt seem overly tight. The All-Balls instructions just say to torque to factory specifications, I did some research by reading threads on sportbike forums, FJR owners forum, hondafour forum, and one or two others to get an idea of what other people preload the bearing to when making this same conversion, common figured were between 14-28ftlbs.

It does seem like common procedure to preload this type of bearing a certain amount when used as a steering head. I know what you mean about wheel bearings, I just did a set on my Datsun and they called for .010 of freeplay, the opposite of preload, but I think the difference in this case is the RPM, wheelbearings spin fast and get hot, they need that space. A steering head does not turn any RPM, and its probably subjected to higher loads just from the suspension than ~20ftlbs if I had to guess!

I have ridden the bike 100 miles so far, I wanted to ride it a lot before I updated this thread.
Ill keep everyone informed of what my maintenance schedule becomes for adjusting the steering head, or if I find any other problems with my bikes suspension!
12 Aug 2023 12:29 #41

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Replied by yam-fan on topic DT360 instability, cant figure it out

Your new head bearings are going to be destroyed pretty quickly, if you have pre-loaded them!

The correct way is to turn the castellated adjustment nut to the exact point, where there is no longer any play in the steering head (this is done by hand, no need for any sort of tool).

Next, tighten down the steering stem top nut (or bolt), to lock the castellated adjuster nut into position. This will sometimes mean the castellated nut getting tighter, and if it does, you will need to start again.

To ensure the head bearings last, drill and tap the headstock, fit a grease nipple and fill the headstock with grease.
12 Aug 2023 13:38 #42

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Replied by akara1 on topic DT360 instability, cant figure it out

I find instructions to preload tapered bearings in various factory service manuals for bikes that have them fitted factory, so that's what lead me down that path. I will be sure to let everyone know if they wear out quickly or not! I'm just happy to ride it for now! Thanks everyone for all the help!
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12 Aug 2023 16:33 #43

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  • RT325
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Replied by RT325 on topic DT360 instability, cant figure it out

Ok, thanks for the update. Taper rollers being what they are they'll put up with being squeezed unlike ball bearings in cup & cone.
Digressing to when i worked in a Harley shop, was a yamaha shop for 20 years then closed so next door harley moved in & i stayed at the bench.
So had a harley in bits--gearbox--& next morning the bike had been stolen of the bike bench. So that was an easy fix.
Anyway, some time later i had a sporty 1100 or 1200 not 883 but think same, & left side crank taper roller bearings had roasted. Warranty job.
They ran double tapers on the left with a spacer between to pre determine the preload or probably zero load.
Worked out ok in the end but had too much preload from the factory that overheated them.
That was i think 1986.
12 Aug 2023 16:57 #44

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Replied by MarkT on topic DT360 instability, cant figure it out

Yes, it's common to torque steering head tapered roller bearings.  You're fine if steering is turning free and not binding.  You're not going to ruin anything nor will they wear out quickly.  You wouldn't do this with the stock ball bearings though. 

I think AllBalls told me 20 to 25 ft-lbs on the tapered bearing kits they sell for Yamaha. 
1963 YG1-T, 1965 MG1-T, Allstate 250, 1970 CT1b, 1971 R5, 1973 AT3MX, 1974 TS400L, 1975 RD350, 1976 DT175C, 1976 Husqvarna 250CR, 1981 DT175G, 1988 DT50, 1990 "Super" DT50, 1991 RT180, 2017 XT250
12 Aug 2023 17:34 #45

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Replied by yam-fan on topic DT360 instability, cant figure it out

What will happen to your overtightened steering bearings, is that they will become notched in the straight ahead position, relatively quickly, and in time the original problem will return.

I have been working on competition bikes for 40 years, many of them fitted with taper roller head bearings from new. And as the steering is extremely important, it's a must to have the bearings adjusted properly.

www.revzilla.com/common-tread/how-to-ins...eering-head-bearings

That's the correct way to fit head bearings. It's impossible to get the adjustment right if the forks are still assembled into the yokes, as the proper adjustment is very much a matter of feel. 
Last edit: 13 Aug 2023 00:39 by yam-fan.
13 Aug 2023 00:24 #46

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Replied by RT325 on topic DT360 instability, cant figure it out

Good link yam-fan thanks. Had new Yamy Scooters years ago overtightend by a big margin from the factory & came out of the crate idealy needing new cup-cone & balls but think we just backed them off & put them together. Not ideal for sure.
13 Aug 2023 01:07 #47

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Replied by yam-fan on topic DT360 instability, cant figure it out

Have encountered a few bikes with notched/damaged steering head bearings over the years, and it's something which has a significant effect. That link shows the right way to do the job, far better than any workshop manual.
13 Aug 2023 01:23 #48

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Replied by MarkT on topic DT360 instability, cant figure it out

If you have ball bearings, yes.  You can destroy the ball bearings/races and they probably won't turn smoothly if torqued down, if at all.

Tapered roller bearings in the steering head are generally torqued to a spec. 

Here's an an example from an early 1990's Yamaha 600 manual I have. 

The key is they turn smoothly and not stiff.  You can follow "generic" instructions and just snug them.  Using a torque spec should be fine as well as long as steering is still free and turns smooth. 

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1963 YG1-T, 1965 MG1-T, Allstate 250, 1970 CT1b, 1971 R5, 1973 AT3MX, 1974 TS400L, 1975 RD350, 1976 DT175C, 1976 Husqvarna 250CR, 1981 DT175G, 1988 DT50, 1990 "Super" DT50, 1991 RT180, 2017 XT250
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13 Aug 2023 04:37 #49

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Replied by Yamfan on topic DT360 instability, cant figure it out

www.revzilla.com/common-tread/how-to-ins...eering-head-bearings

That explains fitting head bearings far better than any manual. Well worth a look by anyone who is unclear.
13 Aug 2023 04:50 #50

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