Dear Yamaha’ Enduro Community,

Yesterday, I received a phone call from Rick from Santa Cruz, CA. Rick drove to Lakewood, CA and traded a 1968’ DT1 ($500.00 offset) for a (1969 DT1 made to look like a 68’ for $6000.00). So, after traveling the length of California for what was represented as a complete rebuilt engine, and to get raked over the coals on the trade, he took home this 1968 DT1 look-alike.

Rick contacted me a few months ago, wanting to do an oil pump rebuild through the mail. The oil pump that he sent me was not rebuildable and I need it to locate him another pump with matching gear and then send the new one to be rebuilt. It was the beginning of a fiasco that ended yesterday hopefully.

The motorcycle started making a funny noise of which he thought was the top end. I asked him to send me a video of it so that I could possibly help determine what was wrong with the bike?

I want to make it astoundingly clear “that this motorcycle had only been ridden 20 miles tops, over the last six months.”

A mechanic in Santa Cruz who I am not familiar with, but is dealing with bikes that are over $100,000 and rebuilding them seems to be credible. He looked at the bike and determined that the noise was coming out of the crankshaft bearings. He was quoted $1500 to do the bottom end and then an additional $500 to do the transmission that was jumping out of fifth gear. I told Rick that those numbers were astoundingly low that even my cost for a bottom end would be $1000.00 labor. I was honest with Rick and I told him that it could be triple that amount. To completely go through the motor.

When a motorcycle sits outside in the rain for decades and the bottom end locks up, you can free the bearings and get it to run for a while. In this case it was $6000 for 25 miles just in round figures. I recently learned that using a huge socket on the primary gear nut will eventually loosen it up. But it must be completely gone through splitting the center cases. So, it was misrepresented that the engine was rebuilt. Further proof was removing the clutch side cover, and finding clutch dust, settled on the bottom. So he knew that he was being lied to possibly, before I even spoke with him originally. I suggested that he find another engine. I located something that would’ve had a reed valve but he would’ve had to of driven to Los Angeles to pick it up and he was not willing to do that. He had already made one trip.

I try to do my best at Yama-Land, to be as honest with customers as possible. I could call him: art ripper off. But politically and everyone knows what I am referring to I think it’s insane, “to call people names.”

I told Rick that in my business, I hear stories like this all the time and there’s nothing that I can do to mend the situation. The nicer the person is who is buying something the more they’re taking advantage of. I’m going to say that again. The nicer the person who is buying a motorcycle the more they are taken advantage of. I see this in my business. Be safe. Ride with a helmet and realize that if you’re dealing with a con artist, you were going to be conned.

a

 

Asco,

I do see what you mean. I do presume this is the guy in Lakewood who restores and fixes bikes to look like the originals??? If that's the case, your making me very scared since I bought 2 bikes from him. So far, I haven't had any issues with the 2 bikes I bought from him but after reading your post.....I will expect the worst to happen....

I would hate to sell both my 1969 DT1 250 and 1971 Yamaha RT1 360 that this guy once touched and restored. But at the same time, I am not made of money when it comes to fixing these bikes I got from Lakewood.  

Also.....He strongly recommended I sell my 1974 SC500 since he calls that bike a total crapshoot.....


Arin

Arin, my Yama-Passion came from several passionate members here. I will try to name as many as possible. I am not even near their experience, I service the public, and I am certain many of them believe I am Bat Shit Crazy.

Bob Burnett 
Joseph McDonald
Dave Sigle
Dave Meis
Dave Rymal
Mark T.
Greg French
Rick Corona
Curt Rhodes
Ed Renselar
Mako
Rusty Hibbs
Brad Morrison 

Erin, the people listed above- all share our passion, but they all have something far more important as a contributor to Yama-Land Restoration.

They set the bar height… ✅

THEY ALL ARE INCREDIBLY HONEST INDIVIDUALS.

That’s why when you decide to start your business refurbishing vintage motorcycles DT DAVE will be your mentor. I only met him once for 5 minutes. He walked up to my truck saying hello.

Treat people honestly - you can still make mistakes and be human. Treat them all like Family. Never ever lie for money. You’ll lose your dignity and that’s all - we - all - have.

ascot tt

 

You are confusing hours with experience. Tear down is one facet. Knowing what parts are damaged and in need of replacement comes from decades of experience.

a

As far as time spent to rebuild a two stroke / my experience is to spend hours looking up information on that particular motor and ordering replacement parts + getting a service manual or printing off pages from the tech section. Info he needs like the crankshaft section , clearances etc are highlighted….(google “How to talk to a machinist )”
 Call ahead , mail it or drive over and present that package to him. Don’t talk too long and wear out your welcome.
 If you find a good repair person never ever ever tell everyone, he will get swamped with work and can no longer do yours…
 $397.75 labor paid last week to disassemble lower end on a CT3 ,  rebuild crankshaft, put it back together. Also milled the head 
 
 
 

I thought so too , works out to around 5 hours 

@ Yamfan, I hope not. The guy I found here locally who works on all bikes that bored, honed and chamfered my ports has a shop charge of $80 USD about 2 years ago.

Time needed can widely by experience of mechanic...  obviously an inexperienced shop will take a lot longer. 

BUT, I also know a couple of extremely experienced mechanics that will always completely disassemble trans shafts to inspect, shim, and replace all snap rings and any worn parts.  That takes a while. 

Perhaps the biggest factor is most good shops won't touch these old bikes so it can be hard to find someone that will.  And ever harder to find someone that knows what they are doing.  So guys that are really good have more work than they can handle and can probably charge premium rates?

MarkT I see that - this thread has taken a left turn ( go fast turn left ) into identifying hourly rates, and time spent. These factors play absolutely no rule of thumb in BUSINESS.
Are these people who are questioning? JUST how long does it take actually personally funding a business? No. They work in a different field and bikes are their hobby. They don’t have overhead expenses, nor need to purchase thousands of dollars in parts monthly and pay their personal expenses. I understand that 90% of the members are not working for the public. When I get a $600.00 invoice for sublet repairs, I have already been paid by the customer and that check is immediately disbursed.

Also, some members are from the UK a total different deal..

a

Yamfan wrote:  Quite so Mark. I was just curious if $1000 is a reasonable price to charge for 5 hours labour?

I didn't say anything about "5 hours labor".  Sure, it's possible to tear apart and throw a DT engine back together in 5 hours or less. Hit a couple of stripped cross heads or seized or broken bolts and factor in the time to inspect, clean, find and order parts, and properly recondition (not to mention correct previous assembly issues...  which is fairly common) and you will be at 20+ hours pretty quick. 

Only a fool would quote 5 hours labor to a customer on a 50+ year old engine of unknown history and condition. Reputable shop will not overcharge if they spend less time than quoted.