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Makotosun

Electrical gremlin?

  • TheMonkey
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Electrical gremlin? was created by TheMonkey

72 CT2 all original

Worst type of problem... intermittent and electrical. But I have a couple clues:

Bike runs great and solid, but if I’m running it hot and at higher and consistent revs, it will just quit. Can feel it start to sputter a bit first, but dies completely.

Strangely, but perhaps the most helpful clue: the neutral light stops working when I go to the side of the road. After it cools off, or perhaps as a function of time (5-10 mins), it may be ready to fire up again. If I drive home gingerly at lower revs, it seems to get me home okay and then the Neutral light starts working again.

I’ve looked at all the wiring, it appears okay (including behind headlight, and below by the horn. Connectors are all in place.

Dads always say check grounds first... visually okay... but I figure I’d ask the audience here and see what you think? Places to check? Crucial ground points?

I had the key switch apart a couple years ago just for cleaning, and cleaned up the contacts and put in dielectric. But that design is pretty crude, Suppose I could bypass to see if that may be it.

Coil is a year old and I gave fresh bare metal for that ground. That wouldn’t explain the whacky neutral light.

Suggestions?

Thx
08 Aug 2020 13:34 #1

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Replied by Pedalcrazy on topic Electrical gremlin?

Yeah I hate gremlins especially intermittent ones. Some on here with more experience may say the condenser is the culprit for the high temp. cutouts. Does sound like a ground issue on the neutral light. The main ground at the battery would be a good place to start. Could have developed a little rust. Get those grounds to bare metal. The coil is another but sounds like you are good there.
1978 DT400E
1976 DT400C
1973 RT3
1971 RT1B
1968 DT1 (3)
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08 Aug 2020 14:08 #2

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Replied by TheMonkey on topic Electrical gremlin?

I pulled the stator plate. Removed condenser. It tests at 0.303 mF which is in spec, but I suppose that can change with heat?

Some of wires appear pretty dodgy. I think it’s peculiar that the neutral wire is in same loom.

But are there any opinions of the brittleness of the coil wires on back?

The points are about 800 miles old, and there are no burn marks.

All the connectors felt tight when I pulled them.

Suggestions?

14 Aug 2020 12:49 #3

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Replied by TheMonkey on topic Electrical gremlin?

I ordered a new condenser.

Wrong one arrived. Seller corrected and sent correct one. However, it tested at 0.246mF and spec says 0.3mF +- 10%.

Ordered another from another source. Arrived in different packaging. It tested at 0.247mF. Weird.

The old one tested repeatedly at 0.303mF. Perfect spec.

I went ahead and replaced with a new one.

Problem solved.

Strange thing about the specs huh? Maybe Old condenser just breaks down when hot.
10 Sep 2020 14:49 #4

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Replied by MarkT on topic Electrical gremlin?

Mitsubishi and Hitachi systems had different condenser specs... Mitsu was the 0.3-ish and Hitachi was the 0.25-ish... if I remember correctly...

Never understood why but I also know I've used the "wrong" one and never noticed an issue. :whistle:
1963 YG1-T, 1965 MG1-T, Allstate 250, 1970 CT1b, 1971 R5, 1973 AT3MX, 1974 TS400L, 1975 RD350, 1976 DT175C, 1976 Husqvarna 250CR, 1981 DT175G, 1988 DT50, 1990 "Super" DT50, 1991 RT180, 2017 XT250
10 Sep 2020 15:41 #5

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Replied by alnarv on topic Electrical gremlin?

I too have a similar problem, but mine just misses above about 5k rpm and with open throttle. Timing light shows steady firing until about 5k, then jumps around as the engine misses. Also, it only did this when the headlight was on. (ran smoothly all the way up when light off) Did all the ground tracing, replaced points, source coil,(see separate post re: ocilliscope traces) wiring etc. I too ordered a condenser which was supposed to be a direct replacement for the CT2 (original condenser was a 277-81326-90-00 and the supplier said the 277-81326-10-00 was the same) The service manual says the original Hitachi system (which I have) condenser should be .3microfarad +/_ 10% (.27 to .33microfarad) The original measures .31microfarad and the new one received measures .251microfarad or 16% low. The question is, is this close enough? I don't really want to pull this apart for the 8th time if the part is not going to work. Any experience with condensers outside of spec?
Thanks
Alnarv
05 Oct 2020 13:35 #6

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Replied by RT325 on topic Electrical gremlin?

Gosh, too technical for me. don't think i've ever had a condenser problem. I did have an interesting experience 40 years ago haha, with my Victor 50cc scooter "Fuji Heavy Industries" the points were either stuffed & i filed them down to the base metal "or more likely" the button fell off the base short button. Then it arced like an arc welder. 12 volt electrics & was just like a very faulty condenser i'd imagine. Oh, & i had a polished up high tensile bolt for a gudgeon pin--ran a brass bush in the rod not a bearing. Oh & doubled the rubber bands at the front to do bigger jumps. Sorry, what was the subject.
Ya could hang an external condenser up with the plug coil like honda do, or one top & original in the stator just to be sure to be sure--i think, think i think.
Last edit: 05 Oct 2020 15:11 by RT325.
05 Oct 2020 15:09 #7

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Replied by Pedalcrazy on topic Electrical gremlin?

Weird only with headlight on. I had high rev issues and replaced points and problem solved. Use good quality oem points. Can't help with why only with headlight on. High revs can blow your headlight without a voltage regulator. On my RT3 man the head light gets bright in between gears if revving high. Makes me cringe until I see it stay on and then I don't rev as high after that! Maybe that issue will save you a headlight!
1978 DT400E
1976 DT400C
1973 RT3
1971 RT1B
1968 DT1 (3)
05 Oct 2020 18:07 #8

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Replied by MarkT on topic Electrical gremlin?

With lights on there's less power for ignition. Could be the magnets in your flywheel are going weak?

First thing is to make sure stator and ignition coil have a solid common ground. Stator to engine, engine to frame, and frame to ignition coil. If you haven't physically made sure there are solid bare metal to bare metal connections, do that first. There's no "meter test" or anything that can shortcut the good ground confirmation.
1963 YG1-T, 1965 MG1-T, Allstate 250, 1970 CT1b, 1971 R5, 1973 AT3MX, 1974 TS400L, 1975 RD350, 1976 DT175C, 1976 Husqvarna 250CR, 1981 DT175G, 1988 DT50, 1990 "Super" DT50, 1991 RT180, 2017 XT250
05 Oct 2020 18:23 #9

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Replied by alnarv on topic Electrical gremlin?

Already disassembled each component. coils to stator plate, plate to engine casing, engine casing to to frame tabs, secondary coil to bracket, bracket to frame, harness ground wire to frame. ( all sanded to bare metal) Measures to less than 0.3 ohm. My main question is the allowed tolerance for the capacitance value of the condenser, in practice. (with a "book" value of +/_ 10%) Will a larger deviance work?
Alnarv
06 Oct 2020 05:32 #10

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