×
Pictures Posting Not Working (12 Jun 2023)
Picture uploads is again unavailable. We are working on the problem. Thanks for your patience.
Makotosun
How Tight - Steering Head Questions
- maxsteckler@gmail.com
-
Topic Author
- Offline
- New Member
-
- Posts: 8
- Likes received: 2
How Tight - Steering Head Questions was created by maxsteckler@gmail.com
Hey guys,
This is my first CT175 restoration. I'm rebuilding the front end and I'm wondering how tight the below nuts and bolts need to be. Making them really tight causes the bearings to "bump" when turning. What is the best practice on the items circled in red in the shop manual picture? Added a few more for color.
Thanks
Max
This is my first CT175 restoration. I'm rebuilding the front end and I'm wondering how tight the below nuts and bolts need to be. Making them really tight causes the bearings to "bump" when turning. What is the best practice on the items circled in red in the shop manual picture? Added a few more for color.
Thanks
Max
25 Apr 2023 19:14
#1
This message has attachments images.
Please log in or register to see it.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- asco
-
- Offline
- Site Supporter
-
- Posts: 1221
- Likes received: 442
Replied by asco on topic How Tight - Steering Head Questions
The ones that I have done. I have completed the entire front end, putting the forks on. The wheel is not necessary. Line up the triple clamps with the fork tubes. Bolt them down.
*Tighten it up - until it binds.
*Back it off slightly.
*See if it rocks.
it should be tight enough not to rock in any direction. Yet loose enough to not feel the ball bearings being crushed by the races.
That’s about it.
a
*Tighten it up - until it binds.
*Back it off slightly.
*See if it rocks.
it should be tight enough not to rock in any direction. Yet loose enough to not feel the ball bearings being crushed by the races.
That’s about it.
a
YAMA-LAND RESTORATION,
( 818 ) 521-2109
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
1971 CT1-C (BRANDY)
1970 DT1-C (MONICA)
1972 AT2M (ZIFFLE)
1970 CT1-B (HULK)
1971 DT1E (GINA)
1970 CT1-B (CLIDE)
( 818 ) 521-2109
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
1971 CT1-C (BRANDY)
1970 DT1-C (MONICA)
1972 AT2M (ZIFFLE)
1970 CT1-B (HULK)
1971 DT1E (GINA)
1970 CT1-B (CLIDE)
The following user(s) Liked this Post: Brzn, maxsteckler@gmail.com
25 Apr 2023 21:03
#2
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- RT325
-
- Offline
- Platinum Member
-
- Posts: 10828
- Likes received: 4695
Replied by RT325 on topic How Tight - Steering Head Questions
If it bumps its 100% sure the cups & cones have dents [not uncommon on older bikes. New cup & cones top & bottom are required. Or if ya cheap like me i used to spin them in the lathe & with a shaped tool & emery over the end of it i'd force the tool in on the tool holder & move my strip of emery along every so many seconds if felt it'd lost its bite. Done probably a 100 back in the day when parts were scarse or crazy expensive.
One more important thing is Are you running 22 [3/16] top & 19 [1/4] bottom. If you run one too many you'll cause greif. If you try to run 1/4 in the top--more grief.
When you finaly tighten then with smooth new bearings & balls you'll find that when you tighten the top bolt holding the top crown [yoke--tripple so many names lol] it'll add to the tension even though in theory it shouldn't. So keep that in mind & might need to back off the rig a flat [notch] then retighten top bolt. Idealy just lightly binding is good. Bottom cup & cone suffers more than top as carries the weight.
One more woffle-- yamahas are a bugger for running the top cone on the threaded sten & the fine threads get flattened off the there's forever play if you were to lock up the front brake & push forward. If bearings are adjed tight it might click forward & hold then not click back untill holding brake & pulling backwards. A bad case is bloody annoying. Maybe was more common in smaller bikes, so don't panic.
Sorry got a bit carried away there--essay.
One more important thing is Are you running 22 [3/16] top & 19 [1/4] bottom. If you run one too many you'll cause greif. If you try to run 1/4 in the top--more grief.
When you finaly tighten then with smooth new bearings & balls you'll find that when you tighten the top bolt holding the top crown [yoke--tripple so many names lol] it'll add to the tension even though in theory it shouldn't. So keep that in mind & might need to back off the rig a flat [notch] then retighten top bolt. Idealy just lightly binding is good. Bottom cup & cone suffers more than top as carries the weight.
One more woffle-- yamahas are a bugger for running the top cone on the threaded sten & the fine threads get flattened off the there's forever play if you were to lock up the front brake & push forward. If bearings are adjed tight it might click forward & hold then not click back untill holding brake & pulling backwards. A bad case is bloody annoying. Maybe was more common in smaller bikes, so don't panic.
Sorry got a bit carried away there--essay.
25 Apr 2023 21:42
#3
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- maxsteckler@gmail.com
-
Topic Author
- Offline
- New Member
-
- Posts: 8
- Likes received: 2
Replied by maxsteckler@gmail.com on topic How Tight - Steering Head Questions
This is all really helpful input. I know I have the correct number of bearings and size. They are new as well. I am having a devil of a time finding new races. What is a good source for them? My first problem was that I was tightening the head bold down WAY too much. I was trying to follow the torque guide in the manual.
Thanks much!
Max
Thanks much!
Max
The following user(s) Liked this Post: RT325
26 Apr 2023 10:58
#4
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- MarkT
-
- Offline
- Site Supporter
-
- Posts: 14506
- Likes received: 10720
Replied by MarkT on topic How Tight - Steering Head Questions
You obviously didn't try Yamaha. The races fit a ton of bikes all the way up to at least 2014 and are readily available. One tip, parts diagrams are not always correct for assembly... pay attention to which race you took from where. Some early parts diagrams have the top races reversed.
Don't get the balls from Yamaha though... way too expensive. Bike shops, hardware store, Amazon, etc. sell high quality loose ball bearings for a fraction of what Yamaha charges. 1/4" bottom, 3/16" top.
Don't get the balls from Yamaha though... way too expensive. Bike shops, hardware store, Amazon, etc. sell high quality loose ball bearings for a fraction of what Yamaha charges. 1/4" bottom, 3/16" top.
1963 YG1-T, 1965 MG1-T, Allstate 250, 1970 CT1b, 1971 R5, 1973 AT3MX, 1974 TS400L, 1975 RD350, 1976 DT175C, 1976 Husqvarna 250CR, 1981 DT175G, 1988 DT50, 1990 "Super" DT50, 1991 RT180, 2017 XT250
The following user(s) Liked this Post: RT325
26 Apr 2023 19:47
#5
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Tinkicker
-
- Offline
- Site Supporter
-
- Posts: 905
- Likes received: 1265
Replied by Tinkicker on topic How Tight - Steering Head Questions
Yamaha have a very poor system of head race adjustment compared to other makes.
They are a case of trial and error to get right.
This is because they have a single adjuster nut that you tighten down on the races. You get that adjusted right, then tighten down the headstock bolt. This then takes up the slack in the adjustment nut threads and overtightens the races.
The trick is to make enough looseness in the adjuster nut initially, so that when the headstock bolt is tightened, the play in the adjuster nut threads is just enough to take out the initial slack you put in.
You will not get it first time, or the second, nor likely the third.
Correct adjustment is when there is no fore and act movement at the fork legs, but the handlebars can still fall freely from side to side under their own weight when on a stand.
Other makes often have two adjuster nuts with a rubber washer in between to eliminate the need for trial and error. Set the bottom one correctly, tighten the top one finger tight on top of the rubber, install lock tab and tighten the headstock bolt.
Thread play excessively crushing down on the bearings is taken care of by the rubber washer.
Yamaha has a very poor system.
They are a case of trial and error to get right.
This is because they have a single adjuster nut that you tighten down on the races. You get that adjusted right, then tighten down the headstock bolt. This then takes up the slack in the adjustment nut threads and overtightens the races.
The trick is to make enough looseness in the adjuster nut initially, so that when the headstock bolt is tightened, the play in the adjuster nut threads is just enough to take out the initial slack you put in.
You will not get it first time, or the second, nor likely the third.
Correct adjustment is when there is no fore and act movement at the fork legs, but the handlebars can still fall freely from side to side under their own weight when on a stand.
Other makes often have two adjuster nuts with a rubber washer in between to eliminate the need for trial and error. Set the bottom one correctly, tighten the top one finger tight on top of the rubber, install lock tab and tighten the headstock bolt.
Thread play excessively crushing down on the bearings is taken care of by the rubber washer.
Yamaha has a very poor system.
The following user(s) Liked this Post: RT325
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- maxsteckler@gmail.com
-
Topic Author
- Offline
- New Member
-
- Posts: 8
- Likes received: 2
Replied by maxsteckler@gmail.com on topic How Tight - Steering Head Questions
You are correct, I didn't try Yamaha. Now I feel foolish. Are all of the races (tops and bottoms) the same part number? Thanks for the education!
28 Apr 2023 08:29
#7
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- maxsteckler@gmail.com
-
Topic Author
- Offline
- New Member
-
- Posts: 8
- Likes received: 2
Replied by maxsteckler@gmail.com on topic How Tight - Steering Head Questions
I appreciate you keeping it real. I think I got it right on my 4th try. Working on these old Yamahas is kind of like cooking with only half a recepie. You just need to have a feel and some experience to get it right. Thanks to you and the folks on this forum for passing down the knowledge!
Max
Max
The following user(s) Liked this Post: Sneezles61
28 Apr 2023 08:32
#8
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- maxsteckler@gmail.com
-
Topic Author
- Offline
- New Member
-
- Posts: 8
- Likes received: 2
Replied by maxsteckler@gmail.com on topic How Tight - Steering Head Questions
BTW... What did you mean by this?
"Some early parts diagrams have the top races reversed."
I put them back exactly how I pulled them out.
"Some early parts diagrams have the top races reversed."
I put them back exactly how I pulled them out.
28 Apr 2023 08:35
#9
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- MarkT
-
- Offline
- Site Supporter
-
- Posts: 14506
- Likes received: 10720
Replied by MarkT on topic How Tight - Steering Head Questions
There are 4 parts numbers for races, all are slightly different.
Some diagrams have the top 2 part numbers reversed in the diagrams/list.
Some diagrams have the top 2 part numbers reversed in the diagrams/list.
1963 YG1-T, 1965 MG1-T, Allstate 250, 1970 CT1b, 1971 R5, 1973 AT3MX, 1974 TS400L, 1975 RD350, 1976 DT175C, 1976 Husqvarna 250CR, 1981 DT175G, 1988 DT50, 1990 "Super" DT50, 1991 RT180, 2017 XT250
28 Apr 2023 10:02
#10
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Moderators: yamadmin, Makotosun, DEET, Vinnie, James Hart