Two steps forward and one back. The joys of cheap non running vintage watches...

The new mainspring barrel assembly arrived and I proceded to start assembling the movement. I assembled the barrel bridge and the train bridge. What an escapade that was. Took me about 30 very careful minutes with loupe, inspecting the jewel holes for correct pivot location and peering under the bridge to see what was out of whack.

Finally got power from the barrel to the escape wheel and very gingerly tightened the fixing screw. Phew, everything still running free, so a dab of 9010 on the escape wheel jewels and train and a dab of D5 on the barrel pivot.

So we come to my latest nemesis. I have never had a problem with fitting pallet forks before, but some may recall I got careless and broke one on a cheap as chips non working 13mm Oris ladies watch movement I was going to repair last week.

So time to fit the pallet fork and pallet cock. Teased the lower pivot into place and got it levelled up. Placed the pallet cock straight onto the pins first time, which was a surprise. Shuffled the fork about a bit while applying a small amount of pressure with my tweezers. Satisfied everything was free and levelled, I tightened the screw a quarter turn at a time, checking the fork was not binding each time. No way was I going to break another pallet fork. Probably ten minutes later, with lots of checking, the screw was fully tightened.

Last free movement check before putting some power into the spring. Nice free movement side to side, too free in fact and too wobbly. Undid the screw and removed the fork to see what was awry. Damn and blastit. The upper pivot pin was broken off! No way...... I looked for it everywhere, in the jewel, in the movement, on my mat nothing.

Then it dawned. The mainspring was off the barrel arbour and the arbour was mangled by the spring, so I thought i'd found the smoking gun. Just cleaned the other parts and gave them little more than a cursory inspection, so I must have missed the broken pivot. It really is no thicker than a hair.

A broken pallet fork can cause mayhem to the mainspring and barrel assembly as the power is suddenly released in an uncontrolled manner, mainsprings have been known to break in situations like this. So I think we have the true smoking gun and I missed it.

Looking back at the strip down pics before I removed the pallet assembly, it does look like the fork is tilted forwards slightly indicating a broken upper pivot.

At least there is no damage to any of the jewels.

So I have a new fork ordered and it is not cheap at £20 plus postage. So with £35 for the watch, £20 for the fork, £15 for the new mainspring barrel and another £15 for the new date ring bringing the total to £85, plus my time and consumables, I would certainly go out of business very quickly if I tried to make a living out repairing vintage watches.

Which is probably why the watch found its way onto ebay as a non runner and not repaired in the first place... Deemed an uneconomic repair.

Onwards and upwards..

Smoking gun?

Strip down pic from earlier in the thread shows the fork is very definitely tilted forward. This failure allowed the power to run down explosively, damaging the mainspring assemblies.

Thank God I didn't break another fork. I would have had to go out onto the verandah with my service pistol and a single bullet...

( for the sake of the enduro forum.  The pallet fork is found under the purple jewel.  You can see the rear of the fork is tilted up and over the banking pins - banking stops in this case.  Usually they are pins)

Very interesting Tinkicker, enjoyed reading along, grandmother Inez was a jeweler by trade, she gave me most of her tools, very high quality tools that I keep seperate from the shop tools , she married the owner of the jewelry store she worked at! 

Enduro fans.  More talk of balance cocks and train bridges.  What are they and what is the difference?

Have a pic of another movement to demonstrate.


A bridge is an upper pivot mounting that spans a gear, train of gears or mainspring barrel.  It is a bridge arch with support and at least one screw at either end.  See the the pic.  The part with two purple jewels is a train bridge it is supported at either end.

A cock is essentially half a bridge that is supported at one end only.  Typically the balance ( pretty much always) and pallet fork (very often, but not always) are supported on cocks.  See the parts with just one jewel.  Those are the balance cock (with pointer and marked AR) and escape wheel cock.  Escape wheels are usually supported by the train bridge, it is unusual to have its own cock.

So more mayhem ensues at TK towers. I learned an important lesson today. Do not attempt to assemble watches after sinking 8 cans of lager the night before. 

Hands shaking like a pneumatic drill and tiny, barely visible to the naked eye watch parts make for uneasy bedfellows.

Got up this morning, missus is at work so I'm rattling around the house with just two Basset Hounds for company, both giving me the baleful eye from the comfort of the other sofa. Fortified with strong French breakfast coffee it suddenly seemed like a good idea to crack on with the dial side works while waiting for the new pallet fork to arrive.

So fitted keyless works and started on the calendar works. And the mayhem started...

The date jumper on this movement has a reputation for humbling the most experienced watchmakers, never mind a hung over idiot like me. It really is a stupid design, one side bearing against the side of the date ring, the other side having a strong spring pressing it against the wheel and the pivot point, a simple semi circular hook that is also held against a post by the spring.

Many attempts to get this almost invisible part into place without success, hook always twisted itself away from the post and I was getting a bit sniffy about it in addition to panicking about the spring flying into low earth orbit at any moment. I thought I needed to walk away and have a rest.

Of course, the devil whispered in my ear to have just one last attempt... Hook on, jumper lever up against the date ring and holding everything down with a finger, teased the spring into place. Slowly removed finger, looking under it for a disaster about to unfold.

Nothing, setting lever sat there with spring nice as ninepence. I sat back in the chair and gave a big sigh of relief and thinking of making another coffee. Just need to fit the retaining plate to hold them down and it is brew time.

Happily sat there with retaining plate in tweezers and looked down at the movement to see how to orient it....

Both spring and date jumper were missing, vanished into thin air. Checked desk, checked floor, swept floor on hands and knees with dustpan and brush. Nothing.

Had to order a pack of five springs from Spain at a tenner plus a fiver postage. Found a new date jumper in the UK for £3.99.

Of course, after ordering the springs, the original turned up. It had bounced under the movement and hung up underneath the movement holder. Only found it because I removed the movement from the holder to put it back into a dust free container until the new parts arrived. Pulled out the movement and there it was.

You couldn't make it up...

I expect the date jumper will reappear the day the new one arrives.

Keyless works and most of the dial side refitted. New date ring without rust and scratches. I have to stick the movement holder down with Rodico to fit springs ect as everything is too light to stay put if you try to compress a spring. Having everything steady and secure is a big challenge with ladies watches, too small to grip and work on at the same time.



Movement with 5p coin at side for scale reference. I am making it very hard for myself learning on such tiny watches, a lot of parts are barely visible without magnification. The recalcitrant spring is at the bottom of the pic.  It is around 2mm long.


 

Well. The date jumper arrived and was duly fitted after a good hour or so of trying and retrying, whilst panicking about the possibility of the new jumper and spring flying into space yet again. Calendar works now back together, working and dial refitted.

Never did find the old jumper.

I have now invested in a good length of magnetic strip that I will use to make a magnetic wand out of to sweep the floor for lost parts.

Pallet fork arrived in the post and fitted but am having a problem getting power into the watch, obviously I have made a mistake somewhere in the keyless works. I have an inkling it is a tiny pinion smaller than a pin head, that unlike most watches, does not sit on a post, far too small for a post, but pivots between holes in the baseplate and spring plate. I think it must be misaligned.

Rather than rolling my sleeves up and diving in, I have taken the decision to walk away from it for a week or two. It really is the most demanding movement I have worked on. Don't think it was really designed to be repaired.

I can't say it is an enjoyable task, just too much engineering crammed into such a small space and too many barely visible parts all wanting to fly into space at any moment. For sure, a lesson in frustration. Just one thing after another gone wrong. It has certainly dented my enthusiasm and confidence.

Someone once mentioned to me that service centres on receiving tiny ladies watches such as this for service and repair would most often throw the movement in the scrap and fit a new one as the most efficient and cost effective way of turning it around. Whether this is true, I have no idea, but I certainly wish I had that option.

I'll be back....

Doh! Having trouble getting power in because I have forgotten the click spring! Could have sworn... But there it is in the corner of the container laughing at me.

Norm  As you say, It must have been quite a popular option fitting a new fangled quartz movement into a mechanical watch needing a service back in the 70s when mechanicals were seen as not quite "the thing" anymore.  Funny how times change, I have no interest in quartz these days.

I'm feeling a bit better about it all now. I got myself into a bit of a tizzy and confused myself. In the light of day I revisited the watch to make sense of my laying awake in the dark musings and picturing the movement.

That little pinion I was talking about in the keyless works is of course the setting pinion and nothing to do with winding the watch. It is set just fine.

Still waiting for a few bits and pieces including an intermediate wheel that I decided to change at the last minute. Some teeth on it did not look the same as the others somehow, but they are so small I could not quite make it out why, even at 20x magnification.

Getting into a tiz with this because it is the first one that means something. All my other movements were bought for the express reason of taking them apart and putting them back together again with the expectation that I would screw up and learn something from my mistakes.

I suppose buying a non running watch from the bay also means that someone could have bought it for spares for another watch or watches, and put all the garbage back into mine, before putting it up for sale again. One never knows and would explain the extensive damage I have come across.

The main thing I have learned from this is that my skills are not as developed as I thought they were. It has been a humbling experience.

Still, onwards and upwards. I will finish it, whatever it takes.

I owe it to the unknown lady who obviously treasured this watch in the 1970s. It is part of her life story. She is probably looking over my shoulder, shaking her head sadly and dodging all the flying springs as I work on it.

Well, the plot thickens. Fitted the new third wheel and rebuilt the train yet again. I hate that train bridge with a passion. Still, power now to the escape wheel, lovely and free running. Noticeably better with the new third wheel than before.

Fitted pallet fork again and put a modest wind into the watch. Check pallet action. Fine, clicks over nicely.

Time to fit the balance. Duly got balance fitted, lovely and free, gave it a nudge to start the movement and......

It's mislocking on the clockwise rotation. You could not make it up. Balance off, check impulse jewel location. Right in line with the hairspring stud. Refit, ensuring impulse jewel is to the right of the pallet fork and fork set for the jewel to enter the fork. Give it a small nudge to swing the fork across and start up....

Mislock on the clockwise swing. Remove balance, recheck everything. Continue many times.

Power down the watch, remove the pallet cock and check I have not done something stupid like bent the pivots. Nope. Rebuild again, lube the pallet stones.

Refit the balance carefully. Give it a nudge..

Mislock on the clockwise swing.

Thing is too small and everything cluttered together to see what is happening. Probably a loose impulse jewel or something awry in the balance because the pallet fork is clicking over before it touches the banking guide shoulders (no banking pins on this movement).

It may not even be the correct balance for the movement. The more I see, the more I think someone has used it as a donor watch to bring other movements back to life and decided to put all the unserviceable parts back in and flog it as non running. Just too much randomly damaged parts. One thing after the next, starting with the barrel and mainspring, the train of wheels, the escapement and now the balance. On the other side of the movement, the date ring which had rust marks on it but no rust in the watch.

Then a moron came along and bought it, thinking it would be an easy repair....

The missus has put a stop to spending on watch parts for this month.... A new balance can be had for £14.

Who would have expected all the angst lurking under there?

It's not always doom and gloom. Cheap movements are for learning on as they have no other use. I have 7 or 8 non runners that have been serviced and ticking away.

Watches, I take a bit more care with. They can be used and loved again.

The Missus commandeered this unremarkable little manual wind Tissot and it is now her daily wearer. Bought as non runner, repaired, cleaned and serviced. Accurate to a couple of seconds a day on the wrist. I have a tenner in it including the new strap. Her new Tissot Le Local automatic now lives in its box permanantly. Could have saved myself a fortune had I known a couple of months earlier.

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Early 60s Oris Super 17. Came in a batch of non runners. Needed a service and a good clean.

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Tissot Stylist TV screen style. Guessing late 60s, early 70s. Absolutely gummed up with nicotine and red nylon carpet fibres. Runs a couple of minutes a day fast but otherwise very reliable. Hairspring needs manipulating. Not trying that, no siree bob. Only money spent was a new strap.

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