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Brake shoe adhesive failure

  • msavitt
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Brake shoe adhesive failure was created by msavitt

when I rebuilt my dt1e a while back I found that the glue holding the lining to the front shoe had failed so I understand the need to always replace 50 yr old shoes. 

is this glue degradation phenomenon solely time dependent?

I ask because I recently bought a very cool DS7 and decided that I should replace at least front shoes as a hedge on a fractured skull.  However, these shoes are very rare and all I could find world wide was a single set of NOS shoes so I bought them.  

are these NOS any safer than the ones that came on bike, age unknown but likely 50 years?

thank you 
06 Jun 2022 19:38 #1

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Replied by Tom P on topic Brake shoe adhesive failure

Are the shoes on a vacuum-sealed card, or do you know how they were stored?

When I recently got my 71 CT1 running, I had the same concern, and got new shoes for it. The front ones were harder to find but I found some brand new ones. It turned out that the old shoes were still well bonded, at least visually, but I still didn't want to take the chance.

In any case, I would think that the NOS shoes would have a better chance of being well bonded than the shoes that have been in the bike for all these years, especially if they are vacuum sealed, and if they were stored properly. By the way the bike looks great!
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06 Jun 2022 20:17 #2

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Replied by MarkT on topic Brake shoe adhesive failure

Brand new fresh front and rear Yamaha shoes are still available for the CT1 from the Yamaha dealer.  Or plenty of aftermarket new. 

Yambits seems to have shoes in stock from both EBC and Ferodo that should fit DS7 front and rear...  I'm sure other suppliers do too. 

Moisture and corrosion seem to be the biggest factor in delamination...  I understand the concern with age and storage conditions as well.  Which is why I buy brand new brakes.

Drum brakes on the street bikes are still used by some vintage racers so I also bet someone re-lines them someplace.  Used to be a lot of shops around that would reline any brake shoes you had cores for...  I'm sure there's still a few out there that cater to vintage cars and bikes?  So there's probably very little reason to ever use old (even NOS) brake shoes?   

 
1963 YG1-T, 1965 MG1-T, Allstate 250, 1970 CT1b, 1971 R5, 1973 AT3MX, 1974 TS400L, 1975 RD350, 1976 DT175C, 1976 Husqvarna 250CR, 1981 DT175G, 1988 DT50, 1990 "Super" DT50, 1991 RT180, 2017 XT250
06 Jun 2022 21:50 #3

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Replied by UncleTom on topic Brake shoe adhesive failure

I had front brake shoe delamination on my '75 DT250.  Shoes were easily available thru EBC, although VERY
expensive.  So I just epoxied them back together and they've been fine for years.  Probably NOT the best repair, but
on a dirt bike it seems to be OK...brakes never get too hot or overworked.  Buy new if you can afford it, though...
BTW...Your '72 DS7 looks very clean...except that the color is wrong.  The DS7 was gold and black...your bike
carries the color of a 1972 R5 350.  The bikes are almost identical except for cyls, pistons, carbs and primary
gears.  Are you sure that's a 250 DS7 and not a 350 R5?  My '72 DS7 was the absolute best bike I've ever owned. PM me if you have any Q.'s about the DS7.  I know a lot about these bikes.   Good Luck!
 
07 Jun 2022 16:09 #4

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Replied by mdscott on topic Brake shoe adhesive failure

This came up on eBay search.  

i can’t get the link to work.  Type this in eBay or google search,
.
.
168-W2535-00-00


    

 
Thanks Mark
Roseville, Ca.

'03 ST1300
'75 Norton
'73 CB500K
'81 Honda CT110
'87 PW50
'64 McClane Edger
'65 Honda S90
Last edit: 07 Jun 2022 20:31 by mdscott.
07 Jun 2022 20:29 #5

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Replied by RT325 on topic Brake shoe adhesive failure

Here's how shoes used to be held on & never escaped. I riveted up lots of these about once a week at work. Some were pre drilled & others you had to start from scratch by drilling then countersinking for the brass rivet heads. Hope the link works. Brakes are at 1.51 in but all good to watch.
www.facebook.com/dukevideo/videos/560966645354269
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Last edit: 07 Jun 2022 23:47 by RT325.
07 Jun 2022 23:44 #6

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Replied by msavitt on topic Brake shoe adhesive failure

Thanks for all the comments and ideas.  I searched all over internet and eBay and was only able to find one pair of NOS so I bought them.   I will continue to check because I know from a past restoration that shoes come unglued. 

bike was a dessert junk that I stripped completely down and building back.  It’s def a DS7 but I liked the R5 gold better. here’s a pic of when I bought it. 

 

I sent fenders and chain guard and several other small bits out to chrome shop.  For the rest, including the wheels, I went thru 4 gallons of evaporust. 
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08 Jun 2022 08:52 #7

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Replied by msavitt on topic Brake shoe adhesive failure

just checked yamabits
no 168-W2535-00-00
the only pair of NOS I could find was the pair I bought on eBay
If these look anything other than pristine - the thought being poor storage would have tarnished a bit - I will ping you Mr. Enduronut to buy a pair from you.  

UncleTom  - do you know what the yamalube pump output specifications are?  And is output split between the two hoses, or in reality does oil take path of least resistance and I measure the sum total from both hoses?

My plan is to start up on premix with injection ports capped off and to measure pump output, the hope being that since I found pump packed in clean oil that the output is within spec.  If not, then I pull and reseal, hopefully not.  

I am really looking forward to taking a ride on this one in the next month or so, this one puts me up to 5 total bikes if I count my 1968 CT90!
08 Jun 2022 09:08 #8

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Replied by Tom P on topic Brake shoe adhesive failure

Sitting out in the desert for years that bike was subjected to a lot of extreme heat and cold cycles. That's the kind of thing that would cause delamination.
08 Jun 2022 09:46 #9

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Replied by MarkT on topic Brake shoe adhesive failure

Most companies that make "consumables" like brake shoes and filters don't list parts by OEM numbers...  they have their own part numbers.  Sometimes you can find a cross reference though. 

Yamaha is the king of "recycling parts"...  Some of the 1960's brake shoes fit new bikes.  The DS7 shoes fit many models in the 1960's and 1970's.

Here's a link to brand new front and rear shoes at Yambits...  Ferodo or EBC, your choice. 

yambits.co.uk/brake_shoes_parts_for_yamaha_rd200_1975_drum.html
1963 YG1-T, 1965 MG1-T, Allstate 250, 1970 CT1b, 1971 R5, 1973 AT3MX, 1974 TS400L, 1975 RD350, 1976 DT175C, 1976 Husqvarna 250CR, 1981 DT175G, 1988 DT50, 1990 "Super" DT50, 1991 RT180, 2017 XT250
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Last edit: 08 Jun 2022 16:44 by MarkT.
08 Jun 2022 16:43 #10

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