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TOPIC: New Clutch - slipping!!

New Clutch - slipping!! 10 Jan 2019 16:20 #1

  • david.martin
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Hi Gents

Getting back into things after the newborn....
My 74'DT175A had been sitting for years
I brought it back to life and rode it for a while but the clutch slipped under load.

I'd assumed this was the 40 year old clutch and replaced friction discs and springs.with decent ones.

On taking apart, 3 things were odd based on the diagrams :

1) the last item before the pressure plate was a clutch plate, not a friction one.
2) there was a washer before and after the thrust bearing.
3) the basket was not as pictured in the manual. It was more like DT125.

Now it's back together, first time as it came out (clutch didn't engage at all)
Second time last plate a friction one (engages).

I have little to no free play and the clutch is weak/slipping regardless of load (although it will move about on the flat).

Help.......
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New Clutch - slipping!! 10 Jan 2019 18:10 #2

  • MarkT
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Unfortunately the 175's had several clutch design changes and the manual picture you have is "generic" and not specific to 1974. And very often Yamaha has errors in their diagrams so you can't always trust them to be correct! Always best to take pictures when taking it apart and/or use some other method to know how it came apart to get it back together right.

I'm pretty sure 1974 175 still had the kick drive gear as a separate part not attached to the hub like the 125... and yes, it's pretty much the same as the 125.

One of the thrust washers in your picture seems to have a larger ID hole in it? I'm pretty sure that washer belongs against the ball bearing in the case and you have to be careful that the bushing is inside it when assembling.

Yamaha diagrams show the needle thrust bearing as one part... when you buy one you get the needle part and a thin thrust washer and then there is another thrust washer as a separate part.

You might have thrust washers mixed up?

Or maybe you just need to adjust the eccentric screw (in front of the drive sprocket) to get some free play?

More pictures showing the details of how you have it assembled would help.
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1963 YG1-T, 1965 MG1-T, Allstate 250, 1970 CT1b, 1971 R5, 1973 AT3MX, 1974 TS400L, 1975 RD350, 1976 DT175C, 1976 Husqvarna 250CR, 1981 DT175G, 1988 DT50, 1990 "Super" DT50, 1991 RT180, 2017 XT250

New Clutch - slipping!! 10 Jan 2019 18:17 #3

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There are others here that know this area better than I and likely know this bike's clutch intimately. Until they can chime in here is a little more info. This parts view is from Partzilla for a 74 DT175. This shows your basket to be like this one. It also list two thrust plates (washers). One for the radial needle bearing and one behind the basket. Not two at the bearing as you found.
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New Clutch - slipping!! 12 Jan 2019 21:00 #4

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Thanks guys

The only way I seem to be able to get any firm engagement is by starting with a rubber spacer and clutch plate, ending up with a friction plate.

This is not how it was together originally (friction plate to start and final was a clutch plate).

Regardless of engagement, I can't achieve any free at in the lever.
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New Clutch - slipping!! 13 Jan 2019 07:23 #5

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The rubber cushions can cause slipping issues if they aren't new or don't fit/aren't installed properly to the new friction discs. (They aren't spacers). The rubber cushions are not needed for the clutch to work and can be left out.

The adjustment screw in the side of the case is an eccentric screw that raises and lowers the clutch arm. There's a wedge-shaped flat that presses against the pushrod. When the screw is turned so the clutch arm on top of the case is all the way up, freeplay is minimum. Clutch arm all the way down into the case is maximum freeplay. The screw isn't screwed all the way out for more play... there's only a half turn on the adjustment screw between max freeplay and min freeplay. Look at the parts diagrams to see what these parts look like.

That said, your clutch arm looks like it's very low in the case which is max freeplay.

Nice pictures, but they don't tell me much as I can't see how it's put together and all the parts inside. You might be missing a thrust washer or something. Can you take it apart and lay out the order of the parts the way you have them installed from the spacer thrust washer against the bearing in the case all the way to the pressure plate similar to how they did in the manual?

Also, before you take it apart can you take a picture down from the top showing how the clutch gear is aligning with the crank gear? Are they exactly at the same height and lining up perfectly?



.
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1963 YG1-T, 1965 MG1-T, Allstate 250, 1970 CT1b, 1971 R5, 1973 AT3MX, 1974 TS400L, 1975 RD350, 1976 DT175C, 1976 Husqvarna 250CR, 1981 DT175G, 1988 DT50, 1990 "Super" DT50, 1991 RT180, 2017 XT250

New Clutch - slipping!! 13 Jan 2019 08:35 #6

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This was briefly explained to me on the 71‘ CT1. It needs to be ‘metal to metal” at the pressure plate, specifically on that bike. The pressure plate slipped on the friction disk.

Assuming that there was no readings taken from the old discs, the new ones would be thicker. Therefore, loosen up at the handlebar the adjustment all the way, Including on the push bar for the clutch adjustment loose all the way.

Now, you have room to closer down to where they need to be, starting with the pushrod going to the pressure plate. It doesn’t have to be super tight. The handlebar adjustment should be somewhere in the middle to the low-end.

I found as a rule not to assume something doesn’t work and replace it anyways. Yes, I use the rubber cushions. They were designed to be there and unless I have a really good reason not to, they’re inside the motor.

a
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MINIBIKESERVICE@AOL.COM 1971 125cc AT1-C (DOROTHEA) 1971 175cc CT1-C (BRANDY) 1970 250cc DT1-C (MONICA) 1973 100cc Hodaka Combat Rat (ABBY NORMAL) 1975 DT400 (BONNIE BELL)
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Re:New Clutch - slipping!! 14 Jan 2019 01:56 #7

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Yes, I see the need for the clutch plate but for me, I have zero freeplay at the lever yet the clutch plates are loose.

It's like the pressure plate is being held off OR my basket is set further back than it should be somehow.

At the moment, the clutch plates have been installed incorrectly to see if I could get engagement. I won't be putting it in service like this.

Hopefully the pictures below might be more useful than before :)

I intend to do a write up after this debacle! I'm sure I'm not the only one who has been stuck here.










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Re:New Clutch - slipping!! 14 Jan 2019 02:03 #8

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MarkT wrote: The rubber cushions can cause slipping issues if they aren't new or don't fit/aren't installed properly to the new friction discs. (They aren't spacers). The rubber cushions are not needed for the clutch to work and can be left out.

The adjustment screw in the side of the case is an eccentric screw that raises and lowers the clutch arm. There's a wedge-shaped flat that presses against the pushrod. When the screw is turned so the clutch arm on top of the case is all the way up, freeplay is minimum. Clutch arm all the way down into the case is maximum freeplay. The screw isn't screwed all the way out for more play... there's only a half turn on the adjustment screw between max freeplay and min freeplay. Look at the parts diagrams to see what these parts look like.

That said, your clutch arm looks like it's very low in the case which is max freeplay.

Nice pictures, but they don't tell me much as I can't see how it's put together and all the parts inside. You might be missing a thrust washer or something. Can you take it apart and lay out the order of the parts the way you have them installed from the spacer thrust washer against the bearing in the case all the way to the pressure plate similar to how they did in the manual?

Also, before you take it apart can you take a picture down from the top showing how the clutch gear is aligning with the crank gear? Are they exactly at the same height and lining up perfectly?



.


I notice that my gears aren't perfectly aligned, if you see from the picture above, the basket looks set back a little far.

I'm very confused though as there are no spare parts lying around!

I'll dismantle again tomorrow and lay things out again.

If nothing else, I'm pretty quick and taking it apart!


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New Clutch - slipping!! 14 Jan 2019 04:36 #9

  • Delcowizzid
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Washer with the big hole behind the basket the basket then thrust bearing the washer then inner basket lock washer and nut would be my guess to how it should be that will push the whole basket out the thickness of the washer effectively making the pushrod shorter to the outer clutch hub with the springs in itallowing the clutch to actually grab and will line up the drive gears at the same time

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Re:New Clutch - slipping!! 14 Jan 2019 06:22 #10

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The gear needs to be lined up... either a shim is in the wrong place or you are missing one. The clutch too close is why you don't have freeplay. Yamaha changed the arrangement of the shims and thrust washers through the years... I will look in my parts and see if I have that version clutch.

It could be a previous owner or shop mixed things up?

Need to see the shim that goes up against the bearing and where the thrust bearing/washers are... unfortunately that means removing the nut again.

.

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1963 YG1-T, 1965 MG1-T, Allstate 250, 1970 CT1b, 1971 R5, 1973 AT3MX, 1974 TS400L, 1975 RD350, 1976 DT175C, 1976 Husqvarna 250CR, 1981 DT175G, 1988 DT50, 1990 "Super" DT50, 1991 RT180, 2017 XT250
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