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This cannot be good!?

  • msavitt
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This cannot be good!? was created by msavitt

So it’s always something. 
while I want to think that I did everything correctly when assembling transmission - which seems to be the case before my first start up - this is clearly not the case. Please take a look and a listen. One thing for sure, there was no aluminum bits in engine when I assembled it and now a very small amount of particles so something not right. Good news is that I rode 20 yards in 1st gear at less than a walk. Odd that noise went away with clutch in and comes back with clutch out. Makes me think internal stack up of dimensions is - perhaps a shim - is wrong?  No interference between clutch or any rotating part and clutch cover. 

looking for a miracle that prevents me from having to split cases to fix properly. Please take a listen to YouTube video comment if you have any terrific advice, a blessed thanksgiving to you and yours!

youtube.com/shorts/zoGxVthKyWw?feature=share
 
23 Nov 2021 10:31 #1

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Replied by MarkT on topic This cannot be good!?

Make sure your kick shaft is fully in.  The kick idler gear should not be engaging the kick gear.

Are you sure you're in neutral between first and second?  It sounds to me like you might be in a false neutral...  dogs rubbing on gear trying to engage.

 
1963 YG1-T, 1965 MG1-T, Allstate 250, 1970 CT1b, 1971 R5, 1973 AT3MX, 1974 TS400L, 1975 RD350, 1976 DT175C, 1976 Husqvarna 250CR, 1981 DT175G, 1988 DT50, 1990 "Super" DT50, 1991 RT180, 2017 XT250
23 Nov 2021 11:12 #2

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  • RT325
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Replied by RT325 on topic This cannot be good!?

Might get corrected here, and i'm not sure what model you're talking, but-- 250 & 360's have the kick gear always revolving & the ratchet moves out to engage. 125 & 175 have the gear moving out to engage "without looking at pics". Also your video wouldn't play for me. I'll try the kids modern computer later. Likely you'll have to 'at least' get into the clutch side & i sincerely hope not a total dismantle.
23 Nov 2021 13:21 #3

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Replied by msavitt on topic This cannot be good!?

Holy crap Mark!

I am 100% sure I have neutral and 100% sure that kickstart gear was and is engaged with kick idler gear which I think might account for the ratchety sound when clutch was out which I think could be the overrun mechanism on kick starter. 

so to make sure I understand what your saying…are you saying that the kickstart gear is normally (as in when not kicking!)  not engaged with the kick idler gear?

my back hurts so I am going to await your feedback and go for a swim in OC sun with the glimmer of hope you may have prevented me from having to split cases 

thank you 
 
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23 Nov 2021 13:24 #4

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Replied by MarkT on topic This cannot be good!?

Listen to RT325.  I haven't worked on that many bigger bikes.  He says the gear always turns?  Idler gear, yes.  But it looked like your kick gear was turning too.  

I just don't remember clearly enough...  never had a problem with one and probably never noticed it.
1963 YG1-T, 1965 MG1-T, Allstate 250, 1970 CT1b, 1971 R5, 1973 AT3MX, 1974 TS400L, 1975 RD350, 1976 DT175C, 1976 Husqvarna 250CR, 1981 DT175G, 1988 DT50, 1990 "Super" DT50, 1991 RT180, 2017 XT250
23 Nov 2021 14:27 #5

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Replied by msavitt on topic This cannot be good!?

Ok mark and RT I will pull kickstart and make sure it’s per schematics. Will take a few more pics and post too. The noise I had with clutch out - no noise with it pulled in - sounded a lot like the noise you would associate with an overrun clutch like the one on my Kickstarter. Or wishful thinking?!?!
23 Nov 2021 15:12 #6

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Replied by msavitt on topic This cannot be good!?

I missed a couple of missing some parts (26, 27, 28) that retain the kickstart. I am sure these play an important role…oppsie

gonna sit tight on this until I get this back to original, which I missed while procuring a hundred other missing parts 

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  I missed a couple of missing some parts (26, 27, 28) that retain the kickstart. I am sure these play an important role…oppsie

gonna sit tight on this until I get this back to original, which I missed while procuring a hundred other missing parts 

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23 Nov 2021 17:06 #7

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Replied by Wessi on topic This cannot be good!?

For me this noise is normal, when the clutch basket is not mounted. If you put on the basket, the gear axle is adjusted in axial-direction and the gear wheels are alligned the way it should be and the noise will disappear. Or pull the the gear axle in your direction, while rotating by hand and the noise is gone. .I had the same, just give it a try. The Aluminum chips are not normal, could be you forgot a washer.
 
24 Nov 2021 00:58 #8

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Replied by RT325 on topic This cannot be good!?

Too tired to think--but i think, now i've got the video going--"as MarkT says sounds like a false neutral, dogs clattering & not quite in between gears. If there's end float in 'that' shaft does the clatter go away if you pull the shaft over, as 4th gear, 'first one inside the case' could be dogs clattering on the sliding gear. All a guess. But regarding kick gears which aren't involved in the video until you revolve the idler--looks like the ratchet is touching the kick gear as looked lumpy to turn. Could be just the shaft not supported square on in which case lifting the kick shaft to halve the play up & down might change it. But end float comes into it although i see you show a washer on the far end of the kick shaft so i won't suggest that's missing now i see the pic. Alloy in the oil isn't good no matter what. I'm not very up to date on that model but think i understand the principles. They didn't give any trouble in 1978 when i worked there. Try changing through all gears revolving the shaft & end up in neutral & revolve it too & note what happens in each gear--chain off to revolve. Sorry if i'm a bit behind on this story. Just looking at the parts pic you show, it looks slightly different in the plate, 3 holes etc but maybe things changed & looks like yours is right for pulling the ratchet away from the gear.
24 Nov 2021 04:00 #9

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Replied by RT325 on topic This cannot be good!?

One more thought also just want to be sure we're on the same page regarding clutch In & clutch Out. I might think back to front as i say clutch In as pulling the lever in, so dis-engaged. Clutch out as engaged as lever out & driving. Sorry it's just me!!.
24 Nov 2021 04:03 #10

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